[access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was: combi-boilers. longish reply
- From: "David W Wood" <g3yxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:53:21 +0100
John:
Interesting - thank you for completion on this as far as the list is
concerned, and hope your issue is sorted?
David W Wood
GUILDFORD PHYSIOTHERAPY AND SPORTS CLINIC
MATTHEWS HOUSE
85 EPSOM ROAD
GUILDFORD
SURREY GU1 3PA
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-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
John Wilson
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:03 PM
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was: combi-boilers. longish reply
Hello David,
I had the combi-boiler maintenance man come last Thursday
and return again today. He had made a few adjustments to the
boiler set-up and came to check the pressure, etc, to see if
they had worked. He made another adjustment or two and said
that he thought that my loss of pressure problem would now
be cured.
Apparently, due to the way my system is set-up and the way I
use it, it was occasionally over pressurising and then the
emergency outlet was shooting water out to reduce this and
thus falling back to a level of pressure below that
recommended. This was his conclusion and only time will tell
if this turns out to be correct. Hopefully it will be.
Having left it for a week, it did not lose any pressure with
his adjustments.
As far as the expansion vessel is concerned which you were
interested in, my guess was right. It's in the boiler
itself. Modern combi-boilers do not have an expansion tank
external to the boiler but a smaller, internal container.
They also have a by-pass pipe between the inlet of water and
outlet of water to the boiler itself and it is this by-pass
pipe which has an adjustment valve on it which he has mainly
been adjusting.
Well, we will see if things work as they should now. He
tells me that a new system like mine should not need topping
up at all between its annual adding of protective
rust-proving liquid and re-pressurising at that time.
Regards,
John.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W Wood" <g3yxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 3:07 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was: combi-boilers.
longish reply
> John:
>
> Very interesting.
>
> When your installers are their, maybe ask them if there is
> such a device.
> If not, how does the system function properly?
> If it is a sealed system, then heating up will increase
> its pressure and
> when hot maybe blow the pressure valve - this could
> explain why it is
> loosing heat.
> I wouldn't like to make an assumption however without
> knowing more about the
> system - please let us know when they have been?
>
> David
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> John Wilson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:58 AM
> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was:
> combi-boilers. longish reply
>
> Hello again David,
>
> I understand the need for this expansion ability you
> mention. Yes, the pressure does go up when the system is
> working/hot. The pressures I have been mentioning have
> been
> when the system is working.
>
> As far as this 6 by 8 inch pressure vessel is concerned I
> have nothing of this kind on the outside of the boiler, so
> I
> must assume that it is internal to the boiler unit.
>
> Thanks, all the same.
> John.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David WE Wood" <g3yxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:58 AM
> Subject: [access-uk] Re: For David Wood: was:
> combi-boilers.
> longish reply
>
>
>> Hello John:
>>
>> Assuming that the system is sealed, which is quite likely
>> as you are
>> mentioning that you have a pressure gauge on the system,
>> when the system is
>> cold, the pressure will be less than when it is hot as
>> the
>> water will expand
>> as it heats to, say, 60C.
>>
>> In order to keep the pressure at a constant level (you
>> mention a typical 1.5
>> bar) their needs to be scope for expansion to maintain
>> that pressure.
>> This is achieved with a pressure vessel which is made of
>> metal and typically
>> has a three quarter inch BSP female connector and is
>> fitted onto either the
>> flow or return of the system which has a T connector onto
>> which it fits.
>> In a typical 3 bedroom house, this would be about 6
>> inches
>> in diameter, and
>> about 8 inches long.
>> Across its equator is a flexible membrane, and at the
>> opposite end to its
>> BSP connection is a Schrader valve.
>> When the system is cold, a pump is applied to the valve
>> to
>> establish the 1.5
>> bar pressure.
>> As the system expands, the membrane is displaced thus
>> increasing the volume
>> of the system, hence maintaining the chosen pressure.
>> Boyle's law:
>> Pressure times volume equals constant.
>>
>> The size of this vessel is determined in proportion to
>> the
>> total of the
>> volume of the system.
>>
>> Sorry for the mix of quoted units, to make it more
>> correct, I should have
>> mentioned atmospheres in stead of bars, thus making the
>> description totally
>> in imperial units!
>>
>> Hth
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> John Wilson
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:54 AM
>> To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [access-uk] For David Wood: was: combi-boilers.
>>
>> Hello David,
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback.
>>
>> However, what is this pressure vessel. I have never heard
>> of
>> such a thing. Perhaps my type of combi-boiler does not
>> employ one. There is no mention of this in the manual I
>> was
>> left and no one has mentioned such a thing to me.
>>
>> John.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David W Wood" <g3yxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:01 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: O/T but does anyone on the list
>> have an Ideal Isar combi-boiler?
>>
>>
>>> Hi John:
>>>
>>> I have had a sealed system in my work premises for some
>>> 20
>>> years, purely for
>>> 16 radiators on the ground floor with a conventional
>>> vented system with 10
>>> radiators and hot cylinder on the first floor.
>>>
>>> I have always had the same problem as you with the
>>> sealed
>>> system, and no
>>> sign of leaks.
>>> One important point is to make sure the pressure vessel
>>> is
>>> kept topped up -
>>> this should be shown to you by the installers.
>>>
>>> The reason for the boiler rattling will be because of
>>> build-up of gases
>>> which will accumulate in the high point or points of the
>>> installation.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>>> John Wilson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:04 PM
>>> To: Access UK
>>> Subject: [access-uk] O/T but does anyone on the list
>>> have
>>> an Ideal Isar
>>> combi-boiler?
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> Sorry for the O/T posting but I'm sure that some people
>>> on
>>> here will be able to compare notes and give valuable
>>> feedback.
>>>
>>> I have had an Ideal Isar combi-boiler now for a year and
>>> am
>>> of the opinion that the pipework may be leaking under
>>> the
>>> downstairs floor boards. Other people I have spoken to
>>> (but
>>> with different boilers) tell me that they rarely, if
>>> ever,
>>> have to top up the pressure in their central heating
>>> system.
>>> However, I find that I have to do this every three or
>>> four
>>> weeks. The pressure will have fallen from the
>>> recommended
>>> 1.5 bars to only 0.5 bars or even lower, causing the
>>> boiler
>>> to become noisy with a vibrating effect.
>>>
>>> Does anyone else find this to be the case with these
>>> boilers
>>> and systems? I am about to report it to the fitters but
>>> wanted to know what the norm for the frequency of
>>> pressure
>>> top up of these systems is firstly from any other users.
>>>
>>> All contributions appreciated.
>>>
>>> John.
>>>
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
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