[access-uk] Re: (BrailleSense)Re: Re: Sight Village - my review

Hi Grahm.  Yes, price is important, but to me its the total cost of ownership 
that is the bottom line.

BrailleSense does, of course, work with Window-Eyes if you want to use it as a 
Braille display for your computer, and a speech synth too I would think.  FS 
has locked anyone out of using the BrailleSense with JAWS, so a pick 'n' mix 
approach has been stamped on there.

A notetaker with Braille output which does all the things I want, with 32 
cells, would be OK with me, were I in any way in the market.  With this device 
I could take notes with Braille input, audio notes, and load MP3's onto it for 
listening out and about.  Plenty of storage options too provided.  I think, but 
am not sure, that Blue Tooth is an option, rather than being built-in.  Hope 
that changes by the time the unit is sold here.
Ray

Personal emails:  Email me at
mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave" <groups.dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>


> Well, that's where the competition is coming in useful.  The Braillesense 
> will be cheaper than any of the humanware range with braille displays and 
> comes in between the pacmate 18 and 32 cell versions.  It will surely force 
> prices down, which can only be a good thing.  I'm more likely to pay that 
> sort of money for a tiny laptop and get a Brailliant or however you spell it 
> with Window Eyes bundled, which should come in about the same price, but I 
> do like the look of the braille sense.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

> 
> To add to Graham's post regarding Braille notetakers, it is indeed a 
> minority in a minority market.
> 
> I hope there is room for more than one of these though.  I always hope that 
> a degree of healthy competition is good.  When any company gets a large 
> share of the market then abuses surely set in around pricing, support, or 
> lack of it, and sometimes derisory trade-in prices for hardware that's out 
> of date.
> 
> Its worth saying that many of such devices go to ATW funded people where the 
> sort of prices that can be charged - and got away with - go unnoticed and 
> too often uncommented on.  Its individual buyers, if they afford to buy such 
> things out of their own pockets, who are the losers in such a situation.
> Ray
> 
> Personal emails:  Email me at
> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Graham Page" <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> 
>> Hi adrian.  I have come to this list a little late so maybe this has 
>> already
>> been made clear but do we have distributors in the UK for the Optilec
>> easyLink and the Braillesense notetakers?
>>
>> this is something we certainly need to watch though I am not sure how much
>> room for real competition there really is in the notetaker arena
>> particularly at the expensive end consisting of devices with Braille
>> displays.
>>
>> Many worthy attempts have come and seemingly gone.  what was that device
>> called sold by Professional Vision Services that had a Braille display and
>> wirked on the Linux Opperating system?
>>
>> I think that generally a product has to either work when it is first or,
>> like the PAC Mate, it can be released full of bugs but it can be ground
>> breaking, or marketed as such, and so get away with it.  I should say at
>> this point that, from what I can gather, the PacMate is quite stable now.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Graham
>>
>>
>>
>> Graham Page
>>
>> Mobile: 07753 607980
>> Fax:  0870 706 2773
>> Email: gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> MSN: gabriel_mcbird@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Skype: gabriel_mcbird
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:42 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] (BrailleSense)Re: Re: Sight Village - my review
>>
>>
>> Another useful SV review.  Pity that Adrian didn't stop long enough to 
>> look
>> at the BrailleSense properly, beyond its appearance.  That is surely quite 
>> a
>> subjective thing.  Don't know that I am impressed or much taken with the
>> appearance of any of the Braille notetakers!  This one is certainly no
>> worse.
>>
>> For a start, it runs under Windows 2003.  For another thing, the Braille
>> output is good.  It has excellent audio facilities too.Uniquely, as far as 
>> I
>> am aware, it has the little LCD display which to be frank is too small
>> really, but would allow, I daresay, a sighted person to take, say, a phone
>> number straight off it once (you) had found it.  Also, though, it has 
>> video
>> output for a monitor.  Many blind people's reaction will be, "I don't need
>> that", and 'It puts the price up.'  Etc, etc.
>>
>> A little imagination would tell you though that using such a device in a
>> mixed environment, such as education for example, would certainly be an
>> advantage.  Not all blind people inhabit an exclusively blind world.
>>
>> As for the price, it might just be competitive as far as these things go, 
>> if
>> the usual currency conversion handicap doesn't kick in that is.  So I'd 
>> say
>> all the more reason to consider it alongside the Mpower.  Either of these
>> has to be a better alt than the FS offering.
>> Ray
>>
>> Personal emails:  Email me at
>> mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Adrian Higginbotham" <adrian.higginbotham@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 3:23 PM
>> Subject: [access-uk] Re: Sight Village - my review
>>
>>
>> Cheers for that andrew, and for comments from others.
>>
>> I made it along on Thursday and here's some thoughts and comments on
>> specific products.
>>
>> What was particularly noticeable this year is that there are 3 very
>> different approaches to provision emerging each which balance ease of use
>> and cost in different proportions.  The easiest most powerful and flexible
>> products on offer are the most specialised and the most expensive.  The
>> opposite is products which offer access to mainstream products and these
>> tend to be the lowest cost solutions.  In the middle and this is the area
>> which is pretty new is specialist add-ons to highstreet products which
>> introduce ease of use at a lower cost.  These type of division can bee 
>> seen
>> in various product types, mobile phones, PDAs, and to some degree screen
>> readers.
>>
>> Mobile phones:
>> Vodafone seem to be virtually giving away Talks if you buy it from them
>> including via any highstreet Vodafone store for exampel you can get a 
>> nokia
>> 6600 on a pay as you go contract including Talks for £130. Talks is a
>> screenreader allowing access to whatever features are on the given handset
>> thus in the first of those categories identified above.
>>
>> The most specialist offering inthis arena is the Oacis available from RNIB
>> and the middle ground products are those such as mobile speak, e.g a
>> proprietory solution installed on a highstreet handset but which only 
>> allows
>> access to the softwares own features.
>>
>> Note takers - andrew as you say, this is probably the area of most
>> development in recent years and looks likely to be so for a while to come.
>>
>> Dolphin are continuing to work on Pocket Hal, a screen reader for PDAs 
>> which
>> use the Pocket PC operating system. It's still in private beta with no 
>> date
>> as to when it will be on sale and there are still a few real fundamental
>> problems to get over such as if the hoste PDAs battery runs flat the
>> screenreader will need to be re installed when the machine is re charged 
>> and
>> switched back on. This can be done via the PC so doesn't necessarily 
>> require
>> sighted assistance although when the PDA is switched on the display has to
>> be set-up which does require use of the touch screen and may be something
>> which can only be done with sighted assistance although this isn't yet a
>> finished product so we'll have to wait and see. Like other touch screen
>> devices this one is dependant on text in via a bluetooth keyboard and 
>> voice
>> output.  The touch screen isn't disabled but rather is rendered difficult 
>> to
>> accidently disturb by filling the active area with the screenreader
>> application window which i
>> s touch insensative. The logic been that if 95% of the screen is the 
>> pocket
>> hal window which doesn't respond to touch you are unlikely to cause any
>> unintended action by accidently touching the screen.  If you do one 
>> feature
>> of pocket Hal is an alt tab like app switching function that can get you
>> back to where you wanted to be.
>>
>> In specialist offerings, the new Braillenote mPower is basicly the latest
>> update to Braillenote with anew name. some useful new features but basicly
>> in the same old box.  Interesting but not all that exciting.  Personally 
>> I'm
>> not a fan of braillenote or paqmate as they're all too big and ugly and 
>> use
>> proprietory software which you need to learn too many new keystrokes to be
>> able to use effectively.  The Braillenote PK range is basicly the
>> braillenote in a smaller package which I find more flexible and attractive
>> but still not quite enough to make me want to buy it. Not yet anyway.
>>
>> The HIMs note taker, I think that's the one called Braille sense but might
>> be confusing 2 different products I thought was the most plasticky bulky
>> ugly "special needs" product I've seen in a long time and I didn't wait
>> around long enough for a demo of what it can do.
>>
>> New, to me at least was the caretek nanno notetaker which is smaller in 
>> size
>> than a bar of chocolate all be it lindt chocolate which is considerably
>> larger than something like say a yorky or galaxy.  No bells and wistles
>> here, notes input via the braille keyboard are stored as plane text (txt)
>> files and transferred to the pc by a hardwire connection I think serial
>> although certainly it wasn't the 32 pin variety.  The unit can also be 
>> used
>> to record voice notes which too can be transferred to the pc.  Output is
>> audio, synthetic for navigation keyboard echo etc and also playback of 
>> audio
>> notes.  Memory is farely limited with I think 8mb of onboard memory and no
>> support for additional memory but for around £300 it's an excellent pocket
>> sized instant on device.
>>
>> Optilec easyLink note taker is another offering for highstreet PDAs but 
>> this
>> one is a proprietory package e.g it allows you access to the function 
>> built
>> in to itself not the features of the hoste PDA. Input is via the braille
>> bluetooth keyboard and output is audio.  Similar issue to pocket hal above
>> although the PDA used in the demo had a flip lid over the touch screen so
>> less of an issue there. The software isn't infact installed on the PDA
>> itself but rather auto runs from a memory card so that issue too is
>> by-assed.  Up side is it's more stable. Down side is that is is more
>> proprietory so has some limits of functionality for example it can't send
>> out email even if the PDA allows it, it can only sync messages with 
>> outlook
>> on the desktop machine from where they can be sent.  Software on the 
>> memory
>> card and back-up on CD with bluetooth braille keyboard and mains charger 
>> is
>> I think around £600. plus PDA of course.
>>
>> Other:
>>
>> Voice Over, the screen reader and magnifier for the Mac which comes built 
>> in
>> to the latest OS was very interesting and and far better in real time than
>> demos I've heard over the Web would suggest although difficult to get a 
>> real
>> handle on it in this busy environment.
>>
>> Sara is the new reading machine from freedom scientific and is a brave 
>> move
>> as it is really a modernised version of the old kurzweil machines. The 
>> unit
>> is quite nice, buttons obvious and distinctive without being too bulky, 
>> and
>> the ability to play daisy CDs on the unit as well as scan and read books
>> makes it more useful however the inability to save data in a way which can
>> be removed from the unit for later listening is an extremely significant
>> draw back.
>>
>> Caretek had a couple of other products as well as the notetaker above 
>> which
>> looked interesting but were quite pricy for example a talking 5m tape
>> measure accurate to 2mm for £60 and kitchen scales accurate to 2 grams for
>> £70.
>>
>> Donkey of the show for me was the wireless locator beacon, a 2 unit device
>> which activates a buzzer on one unit when you press a button on the other.
>> A slight improvement on the old wistle to find your keys devices in as far
>> as it works on rf frequencies so works through walls and doors etc but to 
>> my
>> mind at least £65 for a single pair of units which incidently are pretty
>> bulky, too much so to attach to for example a keyring is very expensive.
>>
>> The ultra cane, a white cane with add-on which gives tactiel warning of
>> upcoming obstructions for up to 4m at a quite reasonable price was
>> interesting and they are apparently working on a similar device for
>> attaching to a guide dog harness which can spot over head obsticles, and
>> things that dogs sometimes miss such as chest high single bar barriers.
>>
>> With regard to the venue I'd say yes it's better than QAC but still very
>> crouded, which is probably unavoidable but disappointed that there is 
>> still
>> no number system for stands and some signs lack signage of any sort making
>> them very difficult to identify.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Adrian Higginbotham
>> Accessibility and inclusion adviser
>> British Educational Communications and Technology Agency - BECTA


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