Hi Steve Why would there be sour grapes as a matter of interest? Sight and Sound now sell the BrailleSense range after taking it over from Force Ten, so I am recommending it. You may feel the Pac Mate is a good product, and I agree it is subjective. But when we know Freedom aren't doing any more to it, what is the point in buying something that offers what it does for a similar price to the others? 64MB of memory, no WiFi and Bluetooth, no dedicated SD card slot, no interchangeable battery, the unit having to go to America for up to a month for fixes, and that's without it's crashes on the dreaded Windows Mobile platform. Yes its good points are the separate display, and a very nice qwerty keyboard. But it is bulky, clunky and just past its sell-by date now. That's my opinion, try for yourselves, it's no odds to me. I have said many times that it is Freedom Scientific I don't like personally, not the UK dealers who sell their products. But even I use JAWS and Open Book, so I don't see any grapes going off here. Kind Regards, Jackie Cairns -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve Hyde-Dryden Sent: 15 March 2012 11:44 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Braille notetakers Jackie, this is a very subjective area. As someone who works with an organisation who has absolutely no ties to specific products, I would never categorically advise someone against something until they'd actually had a opportunity to look at and play with the particular product. I feel there is some sour grapes here and on the subject of differences between the Apex and the Braille sense, they are on different operating systems so there is a world of difference. Actually, the Pacmate is still a good product and especially so for someone who is a current jaws user. Differences in the mobile platform don't necessitate a great learning curve. Steve -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jackie Cairns Sent: 15 March 2012 08:37 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Re: Braille notetakers Hi Mary Please, whatever you do, don't go for a Pac Mate. Support for it is dwindling, contrary to what is said by the dealers here. It has no built-in Bluetooth or WiFi, and I wouldn't even use it as a doorstop! Your best bet is either the BrailleSense - which is what I use - or the Apex. Sight and Sound have just taken over the BrailleSense from Force Ten, and they claim to be able to support it and know how to train someone using it. Humanware, on the other hand, sell the Apex, and do have people working there who competently read Braille and are able to support it fully. There isn't a pile of difference between the two note-takers I recommend. I went for the BrailleSense for its very nice, quiet keyboard which is lovely for writing Braille on. It comes with built-in BlueTooth and WiFi, as does Apex, they are both 32 cell, and both have 8GB onboard storage with the capacity to facilitate up to 32GB SD cards. There is also the BrailleSense OnHand, which is an 18 cell baby to the 32 cell model, but the keys are a bit smaller. Both the Sense and Apex families come in qwerty flavours, but I can't comment on them as I haven't used either in that format. I am giving an honest view Mary, so if someone wants to take offence, it's up to them. But as a long time, experienced Braillist, I know what I am talking about here. There is also the Esys note-taker from EuroBraille, but while these are very nice, small and compact in either 12 or 40 cell, I wouldn't recommend them. They have their own little note pad, but the keys are tiny, and you don't have the flexibility for the money that you do on the Sense or Apex families. But I implore you, don't go near Pac Mate, it's a heap and outdated now. Good luck. Kind Regards, Jackie Cairns -----Original Message----- From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mary Tottle Sent: 14 March 2012 13:15 To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [access-uk] Braille notetakers Hi, I am thinking about buying a Braille notetaker as I would like to read and write more in this form. I know very little about the various ones available so could someone please advise. I am tempted by the Pac Mate Omni, does this have the latest firmware on the market? Does this have the largest storage capacity? What other things would I need to consider? Is there good support for the product here in the UK? Any help much appreciated. Regards Mary -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. 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