[access-uk] Re: Braille PDA's

  • From: "Graham Page" <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 06:22:06 -0000

I was thinking more of the qwerty keyboard. I don't know much about the 
Braille keyboard as I'm not a pacmate owner.

It may be that by the time you read this someone will have already provided 
you with a decent explanation.

Regards


Graham
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ari" <aridamoulakis@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:31 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Braille PDA's


Thanks Graham, that's very interesting. You mentioned the keyboard driver,
does this mean I can then type in UK computer braille as I'd rather love to
do that, where can I get it from? It's right what you say about the
localisation problems. I wish there was a synthesizer for British English on
the PM like I use on my PC. Synthetic speech for it is also expensive! I
wanted to put Dutch on because it could read Afrikaans, and the distributor
wanted about 299 pounds for the synthesizer!
It's interesting that everyone's mentioning the buying of FS products in the
UK. Here there used to be two dealers of FS products, but now there's only
one, some people are quite upset, saying that FS only gave the right to sell
to the one dealer because the other dealer was selling competing products
alongside FS products, and now they want to see if there's any possibility
of going to our trading authority to complain about that. As my one friend
points out, in the normal world where there's many products of different
kinds, a company doesn't have the power to force a dealer to only stock its
product.
Ari
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graham Page" <gpage@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Braille PDA's


Hi Ari.

I think the points you make about the PacMate are interesting and I would
agree completely.

I think the PacMate was really designed with the qwerty keyboard user in
mind. Braille was a bit of an afterthought to satisfy popular demand.

I think the reverse is true for Braillenote.  The QWERTY keyboard is small
for many and using the qwerty keyboard for controling the Braillenote will
seem a bit odd to users of Windows.

Generally though, the 2 products have a fairly similar range of core
functions as standard, though PacMate is really a Windows Mobile 2003 PDA in
a different case with an integrated Braille display (if that model is
chosen), a keyboard and some software to allow for Braille translation etc.
This means that Excel documents, for example,  are directly supported and
you can install extra main stream software.  The Braillenote does not
support formats like Pocket Excel and mainstream programs will not work with
it.

Pacmate is not particularly strong on localisation for different countries,
though I believe a UK keyboard driver is now available.  I think the spell
checker is still US english.  Pacmate works with Mobile 2003 applications,
though with the recent launch of Windows Mobile 2005 the PacMate is crying
out for an update.

I think the problem you raise concerning the PacMate losing its data if it
fully discharges is serious enough, though you can take precautions against
this by always saving to a memory card.  The problem is worse if the machine
crashes during use unexpectedly however as all data is lost.

This is a problem with virtually all windows Mobile 2003 devices.  Windows
Mobile 2005 supports devices with Persistent memory which means they
continue to hold data when a battery is flat.  You also get much better Word
and Excel support with windows Mobile 2005.  This has meant that Mobile 2003
syPDAs are now virtually impossible to get and there is no demand for them.
Windows Mobile 2005 requires different hardware and the operating systems
are not backward compatible.

I think it is important that the PacMate is updated to a Windows Mobile 2005
platform soon or any advantage gained by using a less proprietary platform
than other notetakers such as the Braillenote will be lost.

Braillenote uses a more proprietary platform than PacMate and was designed
primarily with users of a Braille keyboard in mind.  I have found mine to be
reliable and data does not get lost if the batteries lose their charge.

Compatibility is probably still the biggest issue with Braillenote.  The
support for word documents is still similar to that offered in early Windows
CE devices.  Tables for example, are not supported.  Programs such as the
Planner, the address list and the database are designed with visually
impaired people in mind and some argue that this leads to better
productivity.

I would say that these are the 2 main products sold in the UK, though
Braillesense is a third option though I don't know how well this works.

Also, if a Braillesense breaks down I don't know if it can be fixed here or
if it has to go back to GWMicro in the US.

Regards

Graham
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ari" <aridamoulakis@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:47 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Braille PDA's


Hi all,
Just to give some of my thoughts to Ian about braille pdas, as I struggled
with the question of which one to buy last year.
Here in South Africa, we can only get the braillenote and pac mate. I was
thinking of importing an ELba, but the things that put me off was that, even
though it's a linux-based, flexible pda, it is much heavier and you don't
get source code with it, i.e Papenmeier didn't release it. Reading the
manual and posts to the ELba lists, it seemed also as if it was tricky to
get the ELba to do some everyday tasks, and there haven't been hardware
upgrades for ages. The ELba was OK for its time, but probably now is
outdated.
I chose the Pac Mate instead of the Braillenote, firstly because I liked the
design, and secondly because you could also install other applications onto
it, although, since I never was able to get a propper "test-drive" of the
braillenote, I sometimes wonder about my decision for the following reasons:
I am a student at university who uses the Pac Mate for taking notes and
organising my calendar. My two main problems are these:
In the braille keyboard model of the PM, calendar entries can't be entered
in contracted braille.
I also had problems with the word processor, where I can't, for example, do
assignments, since you can't create tables, and I don't think it has many
formatting options. A major problem with the PM (don't know if it's like
that with other notetakers) is that if you don't use it for a long time you
have to keep it charging. I made the unfortunate mistake when I had holidays
to just leave the PM uncharged for about a week or two, imagine my surprise
when I found that I'd lost all my work, installed files, basically
everything. For me the PM definitely can't even replace my computer for
doing work and assignments.
I don't know much about the Braille Sense as we don't have it here, but if
anyone wants, I have a text mannual of the ELba.
It might be the best solution to really think about a pda with a mobile
screenreader and a braille display, but, if like me you enjoy typing in
braille, you'd have to probably get a braille keyboard for it.
Ari
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:04 AM
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Braille PDA's


Hi Graham,

All phones running Talks have the possibility of using Braille.  I myself
drive an N70 with a Braillino, using Braille input, and it is great.  N70 in
your pocket, Braillino round your neck, and you're good to go.

All the best
--
Computer Room Services:  the long cane for blind computer users.
Telephone Low-call:  08452 606 277
International:  +44(0)1438 742286,
Fax:  +44(0)1438 759589
mobile:  +44(0)7956 334938,
Email:  mailto:Steve@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web site:  http://www.comproom.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Graham Page
Sent: 29 November 2006 22:41
To: access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [access-uk] Re: Braille PDA's

Hi Ian.

While I accept that loads of messages to the list saying the same thing
could cause a serious upsurge in traffic, I think the general question and
particularly its findings may be of interest.  So will you be in a position
to send details of what you find to the list?

Secondly, you have mentioned the main UK contenders in Braillelite, Pacmate,
Braillenote/voicenote and the braille sense.  I know there were products
like the Elba which looked interesting too but don't think that ever got off
the ground, certainly in the UK.

Are you also counting Mainstream PDAs with Braille displays or Braille
keyboards?  there are a number of solutions in this field though I think
most would work better with QWERTY keyboards, Braille displays can also be
attached.

There's the Hal screenreader with a PDA such as the Dell Axim and also the
Maestro software which can be bundled with Trekker.  I don't know if Maestro
has Braille dribers yet though.  Humanware would.

TALKS can, in theory, be used with a Braille display though I don't know of
anything but the communicator being used in this way.

It would certainly be interesting to know which poortable Braille solution
is most popular however.

Regards

graham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Beverley" <iancbev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <brailleuk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:38 PM
Subject: [access-uk] Braille PDA's


Hi guys


I have some questions that I hope as many of you as possible could help
me with.  Now this is not part of any scientific research, but is really
a plea for thoughts and opinions.  Unless, anybody feels that this would
be of more general interest, could you reply to me off-list by using the
details given at the bottom of this E-mail.  Furthermore, I'll put my
work E-mail address on there too, so it does at least give options.



For the purposes of this, I'm counting a Braille PDA as counting
anything from the BrailleNote to PacMate, BrailleSense to the Braille
Lite and anything around this area.



1. For those who have one, what type of Braille PDA do you use?  Is
this for study, work or private use?



2. Do you import information onto your PDA and if so, in what
format?  i.e. MS word, RTF, etc.



3. What would you say are the most commonly used Braille PDA's
within the UK?



This should start things off.  I hope that as many of you as possible
can respond to this.  This is work related, but I can assure you that
everything that you say does not get passed on to anybody else and full
confidentiality is respected.



Thanks in advance



Ian.





iancbev@xxxxxxxxxxx  <mailto:iancbev@xxxxxxxxxxx>



MSN  <mailto:ianbev72@xxxxxxxxxxx> ianbev72@xxxxxxxxxxx



Skype bevers01



ib@xxxxxxxxxx



** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq


__________ NOD32 1889 (20061129) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq



** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq

** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq


__________ NOD32 1890 (20061129) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq

** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq


__________ NOD32 1894 (20061130) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** access-uk-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq

Other related posts: