Ah but I wonder Ray how it would cope with media stuff like Quark. That's where I'd really love to get in about complex software to do real page layouts. Blimey I might even have an appetite to go back to my journalism and do the BA Honours if I could get my bloody back sorted out (smile). If only it had been four years ago ... that would have been truly sensational for me!!
Jackie----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray's Home" <rays-home@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:05 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Apple VS Windows
Yusuf, from my eaves dropping on the Apple lists, I'd say the screen reader development will continue, if only for the sake of the American ADA legislation. Which ever way you argue it, that was a big factor in Apple doing what they've done with Tiger, and now the enhancements in Leopard, including very good Braille support that is plug 'n' play and even usable for upgrading the OS. Talking of upgrades, the OS X system seems to have been updated roughly on a yearly cycle so far, though Leopard was longer in the pipeline than expected, partly because resources were diverted for a time to the IPhone. There are though interim tweaks and updates to OS X and this well may include the System Access components. I think most of what you asked is achievable with the Mac now, though access to the web in Safari still leaves room for considerable improvement. A lot depends though on whether software developers stick to the rules in development in Coa Coa, as I believe its called - might have spelt that wrongly but that's how it sounds. In a way this is close to what GW Micro always strives to do; persuade developers to write programs properly to include accessibility, though I imagine the comparison can only be taken so far. With Office 2008 for the Mac due soon, we shall see what we shall see with regard to Office apps being accessible. If what I've just said is correct, then much of whether it is usable on the Mac will depend on whether MS follows the rules, so you can blame them if it doesn't work out. As far as scripting goes, I believe Apple Script, built into OS X is as applicable to VoiceOver as any other Apple App. My reading is thus that we are only at the beginning of what might be achieved on the Mac in the next, say, two years or so. As for whether MS should get into the screen reader business, well maybe with the more cost-effective solutions appearing - by witch I mean cheaper and with deferred payments, then for many non-job or education funded punters JfW will and probably should not be a player at all. (This is not to mention the constantly developing free alternatives that may well serve many.) A good deal of the FS problem is around it being a Corporation of a very American mould, answerable to shareholders where the bottom line is very much the bottom line. Don't know how or if the recent investors behind FS will change or reinforce this. Other companies who are their competitors are private businesses and have a bit more, err, Freedom, to inject some conscience into their business model, including such things as good support, and promoting the proper writing of software. With them you get a sense of some commitment to the craft and ethics of programming every bit as much as the profit motive. (The two aren't exclusive, as some hard nosed buggers would argue. So, probably no need of an MS access solution if a combination of business focused on actual blind users as opposed to who will pay, sort of model succeeds and, on the other hand, the Open Source movement does come with the goods to the existent that the majority, less well placed blind user, can get access on reasonable terms. Cheers, From Ray I can be contacted off-list at: mailto:ray-48@xxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- Yusuf I've changed the subject to reflect where this topic seems to be going. Before I'd consider changing from Windows to an Apple I'd have to be convinced of the following. 1. Apples commitment to continued support of their Screenreader. Yes its got one now but how often will it be upgraded, how significant is the Screenreader side of things in terms of the overall development of the operating system? I mean will the Screenreader be given the sort of priority that VIP users need or will it get pushed below other things like better graphical support etc. At least the way things are at the moment with Windows based PCs I know that Jaws, Window Eyes, Hal etc are going to be upgraded. 2. I have to be convinced that everything I can do at the moment whether its simple things like moving files, reading email etc or accessing complex web pages, creating documents in word with neumerous footnotes, headings etc, can be done by a Blind user using the Mac and its Screenreader. Just on something that someone else said. Personally, I'd prefer Microsoft to stay out of the Screenreader business. Partly because they should concentrate on their operating system and partly because I'm concerned that if Microsoft implemented a Screenreader into the operating system the Screenreader manufacturers would quicly go out of business and we'd be left with one dominant Screenreader player. Yusuf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ankers, Dave (UK)" <Dave.Ankers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <access-uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: [access-uk] Re: Preventing malware?Derek, Derek, I think "DOS" perfectly describes what the programmers at Microsoftdoall day! considering how "Popular" windows is, I would have thought they would have made it fully accessible by now without the need for adding expensive software like JAWS. It is a fact that most peoplewhouse Apple Macs, swear by them, unlike the rest of us, that swear at Microsoft! Dave Dave says "Reliable, easy to use!! I hope you aren't referring to Windows and JAWS!!" Would you want to turn clock back to the days of DOS? Oh I miss the "bat" files. Remember how we could create a file,thatwould then do a number of commands automatically. 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