FreeLists / webproducers / [webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that formaltesting is important???

[Ruth Kaufman <ruth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

It seems clear to me that PM's/Producers need to be involved up 
front, much like sales engineers. It's probably a combination of org 
structure and process, which are influenced by culture (and vice 
versa?). AE's are often not required to get buy-in from PM's, and 
PM's often don't know enough about the client in order to make a 
meaningful contribution or recommendation up front, even if they 
wanted to. It's more of a hand-off process. I'm not that experienced 
in the agency environment, but my company was once engaged with a 
consulting firm by way of a letter of intent. Then there was a more 
detailed needs analysis, then a formal agreement. This is just a 
hunch, but I believe that client-side people are more likely to 
budget more time and money to tech stuff like QA if they see a 
presentation from a tech person, as opposed to an AE. The tech person 
isn't making commission and has a different kind of credibility. 
Marketing people can be easily wooed by smart, personable techies who 
also get their business objectives and get along with their own PM's.

So the challenge is to make the tech organization into a sales 
organization so there's more fluidity and cooperation between the two 
"sides". It may feel "futile", but it's something that can happen the 
techies offering the AE's more service even before offering the 
clients more service. Show them how you can help them win more 
business and influence clients. It can't be imposed from the 
top-down, and it probably can't be achieved with direct 
confrontation. Again, it's a sales thing -- sell the benefits of the 
situation you want. If selling it in post-mortems doesn't work, then 
empathizing over a beer might be more productive.

Ruth


>Ok so we all recognize that this is a huge problem in working in agency's.
>Now the big questions is if there's something we can do about it.  One
>person working for one company going against the whole AE establishment is
>hardly the answer. But is there anything we as a group could do to change
>the mindset? Perhaps one thing we as the Web Producers/Project Mangers
>Organization could do is to establish "best practices" or some industy
>standards.  When WPO was started it was primarily for this very reason.
>Right now there are lots of orgs for designers, for programmers, for IA's
>but there was nothing to speak of for web /digital pm's.
>
>Thought's anyone?
>
>Morry
>
>
>>  I can assure you, it is not. I've seen exactly the same scenario as Ari is
>>  describing happen over and over and over again. In my experience, PMs were
>>  often much more junior (both in terms of age and in the org chart) than
>the
>>  account manager, who would pressure to cut corners. The parts that got
>>  squeezed most often were testing and HTML production (design on the other
>>  hand could drag on for months while the art directors examined their
>navels
>>  waiting for "inspiration" to hit).
>>
>>  "Testing? We don't need to schedule more than a few days. We can always
>fix
>>  the problems after launch."
>>
>>  Of course, you know what happens then: the client is upset that they got a
>>  crappy product, and then the account manager runs to the PM to scream
>bloody
>>  murder about it, when it's their own damn fault in the first place.
>>
>>  Feh.
>>
>>  --
>>  Maia
>>
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>
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-- 
..............................................................
Ruth Kaufman
212.828.6386 (home)
917.623.7423 (mobile)
ruth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://ruthkaufman.com
..............................................................
__________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to 
webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands 
including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation  visit  
www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the website.

Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx