FreeLists / webproducers / [webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that formal testing is important???

["Scott Huber" <scott@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Excellent advice.

I would add that a professional development team takes the time and
effort to absorb good development practices, even outside of a current
project.

Have a weekly meeting to talk about process... buy lunch for the team
and sit and discuss chapters from books like "Rapid Development" or
"Extreme Programming".  Sound hokey?  It's not... it's a free lunch for
them and if nothing else over time critical thought processes like
Project Scope, Risk Assessment and different development models will all
be part of their arsenal.  They will learn to think top level with the
critical skills to know if they are moving in the right direction at any
stage of your project.

Also, one of the toughest things to schedule is the wrap-up meeting.
It's critical to evaluate completed projects while it is still fresh in
the minds of the team.  Do not close the job until everyone has had the
chance to voice their input on what went right and what went wrong with
a project.  The client is not allowed at this meeting, though you should
have their evaluation in hand to help guide the meeting as well.  This
is a perfect opportunity to hold people's feet to the fire and reward
the heroes.  It needs to be constructive and people need to hear
criticism... this is a big outlet as well as team-building exercise.

-Scott
http://promofo.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: webproducers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:webproducers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Keren Solomon
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:40 AM
To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that 
formal testing is important???



I've been a project manager (though primarily for websites, not 
software applications).  Part of the problem is salespeople 
have a strong impetus to reduce a budget (and make the sale) by 
cutting out things that "feel unnecessary."  I'm not just 
talking about testing and QA.  I'm also talking about the 
upfront analysis (needs definition, customer/business analysis, 
definition of success metrics) that also determine whether a 
product will ultimately be well-received by the customer.  And 
customers too -- I can't tell you how many proposals I've seen 
where everything except the development hours seem to be 
extraneous.  There is almost never enough testing time 
available in our budget or schedule.  It's very frustrating to 
me as a project manager, because ultimately customers don't 
remember the amount of money they spent, they remember whether 
their product works or not.

Now, I don't want you to think I'm just blaming the sales team 
or customers, or whining that project managers never have 
enough resources.  I'm not. There are project managers that 
don't like to test, and I think Peter is right -- it's because 
they don't have the experience to understand the value of testing.

Here's a suggestion.  When your project starts and you have a 
team kickoff meeting, bring up the subject of testing.  At that 
point, the project schedule is rarely set in stone. Ask 
(nicely) when testing will take place. Suggest where it should 
be built into the project plan.  Explain how long it will take 
and what report/technical spec/bug list/other documentation 
will result from doing the testing.  Offer to write the test 
plan.  Offer to include the test plan in the first technical 
spec that you deliver to the client, so that he/she can review 
and sign off on it.  I'm assuming that you're the developer on 
the project.  If you have a QA resource, sit with him/her early 
in the project.  Figure out what you want to test and the value 
it serves.  Then talk to the project manager together.  
Frankly, while many QA people used to talk to me about the 
value of testing, fewer developers would.  At the beginning of 
your project, make a list of project risk factors, and explain 
how the testing you want to do will reduce some those risk 
factors.  Be as specific as you can, because that gives the 
project manager a rationale for approving the extra hours in 
the schedule and budget.

Hope this helps.

keren

-----Original Message-----
From: webproducers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:webproducers-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Christie Mason
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 6:46 AM
To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that 
formal testing is important???



Any chance you could "sneak" it in by rapid prototyping and 
calling it "needs analysis"?

Christie Mason

----- Original Message -----
From: "PeterV" <peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 3:00 AM
Subject: [webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that 
formal testing is important???



Hi Tia,
usually experience is the main factor that makes them see the 
light. I've had the same problem. The reason PM's don't like 
testing sometimes is that it eats into their budget/deadlines. 
You have to convince them it really saves them money/time. The 
best way I found to explain it is call it "risk management". 
Explain the risk they run by not testing. Cheers, Peter

At 10:48 PM 6/26/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>hi everyone!
>
>i've worked on a number of small commercial software projects 
where the 
>project managers treated testing as an afterthought.  does anyone know 
>of a persuasive way to convince a project manager that formal testing 
>is important?
>
>tia


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