FreeLists / tn-bird / [TN-Bird] Re: species apparently in decline (BBS data)

[OLCOOT1@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 4/1/03 11:31:26 AM Central Standard Time, dfv@xxxxxxxxxx 
writes:
 > Maybe I'm just dull but, I don't really understand your premise that
> adjustments shoud be made in regard to habitat change. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dave,

Maybe I'm even duller but looking for enlightenment. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
   >> While some survey points have changed from fields to
> >woodlands others have changed from woodlands to fields or from fields to
> >sub-divisions and so on.  It seems to try to "adjust" for habitat change
> >would be counter productive.
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It would be counter productive if all it was supposed to do was to give 
credence to the fact that this happens along roadways and the resulting 
species changes. Applying these facts as to what is happening all across the 
countryside to me does not seem sound without something else in the equation. 
If they can adjust for individual's abilities which is just as variable, then 
why not habitat change.

If you could say the habitat change was a wash out then you are right but it 
is not and cannot be an even exchange. Roadside habitat is certainly more 
likely to change and in different ways than normal successional ways away 
from roads. 

I may be dull also but I am looking at what you say and looking at what I 
think. I think the conversation is good if it causes anyone to think. 
Defending with only opinions on both mine and your parts are just part of it. 
Facts or changes would be better.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Hope I don't sound too defensive.  Certainly all studies have their flaws
> and I welcome any new and better studies but, at present, the BBS must
> surely provide as good as information on breeding bird populations in
> north America as is available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

You have a right to be defensive of things you feel that are right. Unlike 
others my mind can be changed, so, change it.

It may well be as good as information as available but again do you ride that 
horse to the ground or do you improve it or replace it for better methods. My 
point is, does it really stand up and should not better and more modern 
methods be sought and implemented? I appreciate both yours and Chuck's input 
and the others that have responded off line. I looked at the data, I looked 
at the report and they just did not stand up in my mind. I acknowledge the 
declines but wonder if the proof withstands scrutiny from others that are 
trying in numerous ways to discredit the figures.

This debate has raged on many other lists and I was just wondering what the 
thinking was here. We are certainly not going to change set minds but at 
least we can discuss it.

Good Birding!!!

Jeff R. Wilson
OL' COOT / TLBA
Bartlett Tenn.

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