FreeLists / si-list / [SI-LIST] Re: OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies

["Lee Ritchey" <leeritchey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Prakash,

Well said.  Thanks for a sound reply to a not so sound tirade.

Lee Ritchey


> [Original Message]
> From: Chauhan, Prakash <pchauhan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: si-list <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 7/6/2007 10:08:28 AM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
>
> Hi Agathon,
>       I am an Indian who used to work for Wipro, in the beautiful city
> of Bangalore and was hired by Dell (in Austin) on an H1B visa, 10 years
> ago.  My first response on reading your post was one of dismay (due to
> the insults and negative comments that you hurled at a company that you
> have not worked for and to a country you have not lived in).  You have
> dragged in a lot of different suggestions in your post (Indian companies
> are Fraudulent, Indian workers are incompetent or stupid or both, India
> is a place where no American would want to tread, much less work).  I
> suppose if venting your rage helps you think more clearly, there would
> still be something positive to take out of this.  I tried to come up
> with some reasons why India and the US are good partners and will be for
> a long time to come. I also tried to rebut some of your statements but
> this is not something easily done, when your mind is made.=20
>
> 1.  The US needs India to stay competitive in Hi-Tech.  The US has money
> and Ideas, India has the human resources to allow these ideas to be
> implemented in a cost effective way.  India needs investment to bring
> the masses out of poverty and chart their future.
>
> 2.  The dotcom bust was a far larger cause of job losses and economic
> hardships than H1B visas.  In fact the H1B contractors were the first to
> be laid off when the downturn arrived.  The H1B program was invaluable
> in resolving the Y2K bug whereby the large firms worldwide could take
> advantage of cheap programmers from India.  American firms were able to
> survive the lean times after the dotcom bust better because of cost
> cutting that they could afford to do, thanks to outsourcing.  If US IT
> companies stop outsourcing, they might end up in same boat as US
> manufacturing, automotive and agricultural industries (not efficient
> enough to compete in a global market).
>
> 3. The Middle class in India will be the same size as the entire US
> population, by 2025.  India and China are a huge market opportunity for
> US firms to sell their stuff to (Check out the growth rates for
> Computers, Cell Phones, Cars and other commodities in India).  I will
> not be too surprised if a large swath of American companies makes a
> large amount of their revenues by selling to Indian & Chinese consumers
> in the near future.
>
> 4. It may be true that there is corruption and class culture in India,
> but things are getting better with increased transparency in government
> and a free and raucous media. No government or system is ideal.  You had
> slavery and segregation in the not too distant past in the USA.  As for
> corruption and fraudulent behavior: Watergate, Iran Contra affair, Iraq
> war, Enron, Worldcom.. There are plenty of examples where the system
> failed leading to lives and livelihoods lost.
>
> 5.  We are all human beings, trying to secure the best for ourselves and
> our families and communities.  Bad mouthing and scape-goating someone
> else will not solve the problems of this world.
>
> 6.  To become an Engineer in India, one needs to take an entrance test
> (after high school).  Here below is a link to a sample Physics paper
> that you have to solve in 3 hours. I am sure you can convince yourself
> that Indian engineers also know some Physics.  That said, I know that
> many Indian Engineers fresh out of school are lacking in real world
> experience and implementation.
>
>
> http://www.iitjee.org/iit-question-papers/iit-jee-2003-main/iit-jee-2003
> -physics-main.html
>
>
>
> Thank You for listening to my rant. I don't expect it to change
> anything.
>
> Regards,
> Prakash
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of agathon
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:31 AM
> To: Andrew W. Riley III; si-list
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
>
> re:  going elsewhere to find information:
> Glad to oblige...
> Google these:
> wipro (h-1b OR h1) fraud
> wipro (h-1b OR h1) fraud -explain -dice -outsourcing -letters
>
> The 2nd one filters out alot of redundant ones, but the 1st one's top
> results are important.
>
> Also...
>
> Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage (Norm Matloff,
> UC
> Davis)
> http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.html
>
> vdare mar-04-03 - Is Outsourcing Trade - Or Dispossession
> http://www.vdare.com/roberts/free_trade_notes.htm  (note: I have no
> political associations)
>
> Using L-1 to get around H-1B --BW March 10, 2003  A Visa Loophole as Big
> as
> a Mainframe
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_10/b3823111_mz021.htm
>
> Office of Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment
> Practices
> http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/osc/htm/contactus.htm
>
> H-1B Class Action Legal Information
> http://www.geocities.com/h1baction/Law.html
>
> LCA Database Tutorial
> http://www.jobdestruction.com/LCA-Data/Tutorial.htm   (main page has a
> signup for the newsletter, very influential)
>
>
>
>
> On 7/5/07, Andrew W. Riley III <drew3rdof3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy Steve,
> >
> > Understood, and I actually agree.  But how would I know to go there?
> More
> > than a few times I have thought there needs to be an appropriate way
> to go
> > OT and still have the possibility of including the invaluable thoughts
> of
> > anyone on the SI-List.
> >
> > Oh well.  I thank each of you for your educational posts.
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Drew
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "steve weir" <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <drew3rdof3@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Cc: <praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx>; <hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] OT: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
> >
> >
> > > Drew, this is a global technical forum that allows job postings.
> > > Praveen's posts fell easily within those parameters.  Agathon's post
> was
> > > out of bounds on several fronts.    The internet is filled with
> places
> > > where Agathon's post would be far more appropriate.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve.
> > > Andrew W. Riley III wrote:
> > >> Hmm,
> > >>
> > >> I believe at the *very* most an "OT" should be prepended to the
> subject
> > >> line and Agathon's post is a very relevant albeit noticeably
> sensitive
> > >> topic.
> > >>
> > >> Personally, I also believe that I have been able to get back into
> the
> > >> career I love because more than a few US companies were tired of
> paying
> > >> for a bookmark from outsourcing the layout of their design to other
> > >> countries.
> > >>
> > >> At the risk of being flogged, I would like to hear more.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers!
> > >> Drew
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: <praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> To: <hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx>
> > >> Cc: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 2:52 AM
> > >> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> First of all, I don't think this is a forum where we discuss
> > >>> globalization, its impact, outsourcing or H1/L1 Visa frauds. Those
> > >>> things are heavens apart from the scope of this list. This message
> is
> > >>> only for the needy and if someone is not implicated, he/she should
> > keep
> > >>> quiet.
> > >>>
> > >>> As the welcome message clearly states, this is a forum to discuss
> SI
> > >>> related stuff and may be post SI related job opportunities (that
> too
> > >>> with utmost caution).
> > >>>
> > >>> Moderator, can you please block these irrelevant messages/senders?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks and regards,
> > >>> Praveen
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>> From: agathon [mailto:hreidmarkailen@xxxxxxxxx]
> > >>> Sent: Thu 7/5/2007 7:38 AM
> > >>> To: Praveen Srikantaiah (WT01 - TES-Transport Infrastructure)
> > >>> Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Job Opening at Wipro Technologies
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> This is interesting.  Let's assume this job posting is real.
> > >>>
> > >>> After years of displacing U.S. citizens via fraudulent use of H-1B
> > _and_
> > >>> L-1 visas, Wipro has the cajones to post, right in our face, an
> > >>> offer of employment in India.  No quantity of rupees could
> compensate.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now, some obvious questions arise.
> > >>>
> > >>> What U.S. citizen are they expecting to hire?  If they don't
> expect
> > to,
> > >>> as anyone can subscribe to the si-list, then what non-U.S. citizen
> > from
> > >>> what country would want such a job location?  No, the U.S. - as we
> > >>> know - is a declining place, so suddenly not producing enough
> > engineers
> > >>> and other professionals, it's like the bubonic plague by God, for
> > which
> > >>> India and China had to come to the rescue.  But, I don't think
> your
> > >>> typical U.S. citizen engineer would take very well to the
> corruption
> > >>> over there and stark class society.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, why is Wipro having an issue filling the job with the
> 'superior'
> > >>> non-U.S. citizen worker?
> > >>>
> > >>> Hmmm... possibly is the targeted candidate Indian?   Might they be
> in
> > >>> the U.S.?  Are there no direct means within India to find such a
> > person?
> > >>> Evidently not.  And evidently a shortage exists within Wipro and
> > >>> wherever their tentacles reach.  Wait, I thought - as the Indian
> (and
> > >>> U.S., unfortunately) press trumpet - the Indian engineer is so
> much
> > >>> better and they produce masses of them?  What's the problem
> finding an
> > >>> Indian engineer who also knows a little physics?   Gee whiz.  So
> sad.
> > >>>
> > >>> I've just heard (BBC I think) that U.S. companies are closing
> Indian
> > >>> operations.  And, the Indian edge is decreasing due to costs.  So,
> > don't
> > >>> offer the weak crap that it's demand that's causing the Wipro
> posting.
> > >>> Intel is going to Vietnam, instead.  Yep, the race to the
> > bottom.  Even
> > >>> the Indians might actually catch a clue sometime
> > soon.  Americans?  No;
> > >>> too deep in sleep.  I have NEVER met an H-1B/L-1 who could
> contribute
> > to
> > >>> any SI effort and, at Intel on one occasion, only contributed to
> > >>> negative productivity.
> > >>>
> > >>> More likely, Wipro and the like are starting to retrench and build
> the
> > >>> home base.  Especially since the H-1B cap wasn't raised.  The
> rampant
> > >>> fraud in India has drained off alot of the H-1B slots, leaving
> Wipro
> > >>> high and dry.  Well, waddya know, the law of supply and demand
> does
> > >>> exist. Just not in the usual way.  Yee ha!!
> > >>>
> > >>> "Fraudsters walk away with H1B visas!"
> > >>> http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=3D2421&tstart=3D0
> > >>> "Glen Keiser, Consular Section Chief, US Consulate, Mumbai said,
> "We
> > >>> have found to our regret that Hyderabad and Bangalore are centres
> of
> > H1B
> > >>> visa fraud and that it is not difficult to walk into an operation
> and
> > >>> someone rather forthrightly tell you that they can produce
> anything to
> > >>> appear to qualify for an H1B visa...".  The link at the above link
> has
> > >>> Indian tv video describing Wipro's Woes.
> > >>>
> > >>> The 5% of their GDP that is tech exports (incl. services) is not
> > growing
> > >>> as in the past and the nervousness doth rear its ugly head.  Plus,
> the
> > >>> only way to exploit the L-1 visa is to have personnel employed at
> a
> > >>> "home base", ready for transfer to the U.S. - without any
> protections
> > >>> for U.S. citizens whatsoever (not even any H-1B fig leaf
> protection).
> > >>>
> > >>> So, this is a rich thought...  Like my mom always said, "the truth
> > will
> > >>> out".  And it cometh right quick.  So I say India should legislate
> a
> > >>> US-1 visa whereby we foreigners may be imported to save the ship.
> At
> > an
> > >>> appropriate premium, of course.  But, that might have to wait
> until
> > >>> AFTER our Congress has devolved us further, maybe into 3rd World
> > status.
> > >>>
> > >>> Obviously, since India is apparently incapable of producing
> someone
> > >>> skilled enough, Wipro is counting on past H-1B exploitation of
> Indians
> > &
> > >>> Americans having produced someone who can do this work from their
> U.S.
> > >>> experience _and_ who now wants to work in Bangalore, ready to
> continue
> > >>> taking work from U.S. citizens, or others, in their own country.
> > That
> > >>> takes balls.  And a U.S. Congress bought and paid for.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 6/29/07, praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx <
> > praveen.srikantaiah@xxxxxxxxx
> > >>>  > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> Wipro Technologies' SI group is looking for an SI engineer with
> around
> > >>> 10 years of experience. The job is based out of Bangalore, India.
> > Below
> > >>> is the job description. If interested email me.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> Praveen
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Roles & Responsibilities
> > >>> PCB stack-up definition, PCB material selection, and layer
> assignment
> > as
> > >>> per Signal Integrity / Cross talk requirements.
> > >>> Do pre-layout and post-layout signal Integrity analysis for
> various
> > >>> boards.
> > >>> Review analysis results and all checks as per guidelines needed by
> > Wipro
> > >>> and client specifications.
> > >>> Review Signal quality measurement results and tune models/
> methodology
> > >>> accordingly.
> > >>> Develop/Enhance/Update methodology based on advancements in Signal
> > >>> Integrity / Design complexity. Designs will be in various domains
> like
> > >>> Telecom, Computing, Embedded, Automotive, Consumer Electronics
> etc.
> > >>> Skills, Job Requirements
> > >>>
> > >>> Hands on experience in execution of high speed signal integrity
> > analysis
> > >>> and cross talk analysis on High frequency boards involving
> different
> > >>> types of models - IBIS, Spice, SLM/MLM/ICM.
> > >>>
> > >>> Detailed experience with multiple tools like Spectraquest,
> Hyperlynx,
> > >>> Hspice, ICX etc. required.
> > >>> Experience in doing IBIS model validation, Signal Integrity
> Analysis
> > of
> > >>> PCI express, XAUI or similar interfaces is a must.
> > >>> Experience in doing multi board simulations is an added advantage.
> > >>> Must have experience in High Speed/ Gigabit speed Signal Quality
> > >>> measurements.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
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