|
[si-list]
||
[Date Prev]
[05-2005 Date Index]
[Date Next]
||
[Thread Prev]
[05-2005 Thread Index]
[Thread Next]
[SI-LIST] Re: Broadside coupled line vertical registration
- From: <Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <levinpa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <Dennis.Han@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 11:59:00 -0500
Cadence's SigXplorer allows you to parameterize up to 3 broadside diff
pairs so you can also look at crosstalk. The tool supports both
stripline and (embedded) microstrip diff pairs. The microstrip version
can be with or without soldermask. =20
Disclaimer: I haven't used or tested the embedded microstrip diff
pairs.
Aubrey Sparkman=20
Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
Dell, Inc.=20
Aubrey_Sparkman@xxxxxxxx=20
(512) 723-3592
-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Paul Levin
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:41 AM
To: Dennis.Han@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: billw@xxxxxxxxxxx; si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Broadside coupled line vertical registration
Dear Dennis,
It won't work for broadside coupled stripline, but for edge-microstrip
or stripline, Genesys by Eagleware-Elanix will allow you to collect
s-parameters for a Monte-Carlo'ed batch of dielectrics and trace widths
and spaces.
Regards,
Paul
________________
Dennis Han wrote:
>Does anyone know if any simulator has Monte Carlo or a similar =3D=20
>statistical capability? It would make a task such as this easier.
>
>Dennis
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20
>[mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] =3D On Behalf Of Bill Wurst
>Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 10:07 AM
>To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Broadside coupled line vertical registration
>
>
>Mark,
>
>While you are evaluating the effects of copper registration, don't=3D20 =
>forget to also include the effect of manufacturing variations in =
the=3D20
>thickness of the three dielectrics: top plane-to-trace,=20
>trace-to-trace, =3D
>
>and bottom plane-to-trace. Each one will have an impact, the degree=20
>of=3D20 which is dependent upon the relative spacing and the amount of=20
>variation =3D
>
>relative to the nominal thickness, as well as the width of the traces.
>
>Regards,
>
> -Bill
>
>
> /************************************
> / billw@xxxxxxxxxxx /
> / /
> / Advanced Electronic Concepts, LLC /
> / www.aec-lab.com /
> ************************************
>=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3
>D=3D3D=3D =
=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=
3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D
>Ed Sayre III wrote:
> =20
>
>>Mark,
>> Try using a free ware field solver for this. It is a simple=3D20=20
>>experiment and you will surprised by the results.
>> We have done some substantial investigations into this and found =
=3D
>> =20
>>
>that=3D20
> =20
>
>>the broadside registration is not as sensitive to variations as=20
>>edge=3D20 coupled spacing and dielectric thicknesses. Of course the=20
>>issue is =3D
>> =20
>>
>the=3D20
> =20
>
>>level of coupling for the lines. The tighter the mutual coupling the=20
>>=3D
>> =20
>>
>more
>
> =20
>
>>critical the registration. Thus try your stack and see.
>>=3D20
>>Regards
>>-Ed
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>At 02:37 PM 5/5/2005 +0100, Mark Burford wrote:
>>=3D20
>> =20
>>
>>>I have an interesting query, I would like to know what you =
guru's=3D20=20
>>>think about the effect of the vertical alignment of a broadside=3D20=20
>>>coupled trace and the error it could potentially introduce to 2D=20
>>>field =3D
>>> =20
>>>
>
> =20
>
>>>solvers and the traditional transmission line approximation=20
>>>formulas=3D20 for calculating Z0, C and L. To clarify: a perfect=20
>>>alignment I am=3D20 classing as both lines exactly stacked one above=20
>>>the other with with=3D20 core material in the centre an no over hang, =
>>>worst case would be one=3D20 line being offset to the left or right =
by
50 percent.
>>>
>>>Could the potential error introduced be described to a first order=20
>>>by=3D20 decreasing the capacitance by at worst case 0.5? What would =
be
>>>the=3D20 2nd order effects?
>>>
>>>Your thoughts I am sure will be as diverse as they are interesting.
>>>
>>>Thanks guys
>>>
>>>Mark Burford=3D3D20
>>>EngD Research Engineer
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> =20
>>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from si-list:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
>For help:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>List FAQ wiki page is located at:
> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
>
>List technical documents are available at:
> http://www.si-list.org
>
>List archives are viewable at: =3D20
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> =3D20
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from si-list:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
>
>or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
>http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
>
>For help:
>si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
>
>List FAQ wiki page is located at:
> http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
>
>List technical documents are available at:
> http://www.si-list.org
>
>List archives are viewable at: =20
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
>or at our remote archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
>Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
> http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
> =20
>
>
>
> =20
>
--
Paul A. Levin
Senior Principal Engineer
Xyratex, Manhattan Beach
(310) 372-7352 - home & office
(310) 291-8199 - cell
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List FAQ wiki page is located at:
http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.org
List archives are viewable at: =20
http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
=20
------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from si-list:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'unsubscribe' in the Subject field
or to administer your membership from a web page, go to:
http://www.freelists.org/webpage/si-list
For help:
si-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'help' in the Subject field
List FAQ wiki page is located at:
http://si-list.org/wiki/wiki.pl?Si-List_FAQ
List technical documents are available at:
http://www.si-list.org
List archives are viewable at:
http://www.freelists.org/archives/si-list
or at our remote archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/si-list/messages
Old (prior to June 6, 2001) list archives are viewable at:
http://www.qsl.net/wb6tpu
|
|
