FreeLists / si-list / [SI-LIST] Re: modeling for tantalum capacitors and aluminium electrolytic capacitors

["Tom Biggs" <tbiggs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

There is an interesting article on Doug Smith's website about a simple
way of measuring capacitors using just a pulse generator:

http://emcesd.com/tt020100.htm

    -tom

-----Original Message-----
From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of TeddyChou@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:42 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: modeling for tantalum capacitors and aluminium
electrolytic capacitors


Hi Ray and John,
Thanks for your great help. These papers are very useful for me. So does
John's PDS book.

TeddyChou

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Anderson [mailto:ray.anderson@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:31 AM
To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Teddy Chou
Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] modeling for tantalum capacitors and aluminium
electrolytic capacitors


TeddyChou@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

>I just learned about power distribution system design. So far, I have=20
>had some experiences in ceramic cap modeling by VNA measurement. But I=20
>couldn't find any materials or papers to talk about how to measure=20
>tantalum capacitors and aluminium electrolytic capacitors. Does any SI=20
>expert know it? Thanks in advance.
>
>Teddy Chou
> =20
>
John Barnes just posted a most excellent bibliography of numerous papers

and other resources related to PDN design. I'd recommend looking into=20
any number of those listed publications.

To answer your question more specifically, I'd recommend you visit=20
Istvan Novak's web site and obtain copies of  several of the papers he=20
and some of his colleagues have written on the topic of decoupling=20
capacitor measurement techniques over the past several years.=20
Specifically, check out the following three papers:

"Measuring MilliOhms and PicoHenrys in Power Distribution Networks"
http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/dc2000_rev.pdf
http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/dc2000_slides.pdf

"Frequency-domain Power Distribution Measurements - An Overview"
http://home.att.net/~inovak/papers/DC03-East_HP-TF1_SUN.PDF

"Frequency Dependent Characterization of bulk and Ceramic Bypass
Capacitors"
http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/EPEP2003_cap_models.PDF
http://home.att.net/~istvan.novak/papers/EPEP2003_cap_models_poster.PDF

One of the key concepts that you'll take away from these articles is the

problem of  errors induced by cable-braid ground loops and the need for=20
isolation transformers or isolation amplifiers when making low frequency

ESR measurements on bulk capacitors.  The isolation techniques he=20
presents can  reduce the errors induced by the ground loop effect that=20
can mask the actual low value impedances you are trying to measure.

Ray Anderson
Senior Signal Integrity Staff Engineer
Xilinx Inc.
=20

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