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[pure-silver] Re: Ansco 221 Observations & Questions

From: "Tim Rudman" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 08:32:24 +0100
Hi Eric
Re your last comment below: A word of warning if you use a slot washer. Many
have dimpled or otherwise textured partition surfaces to encourage water
flow over the print and inhibit adherence of the print to the slot side. If
you use these washers after your bleach you are likely to get the screen
surface pattern appearing during development/toning, be it a sepia toner or
lith redevelopment or etc.

Re your questions, they have been admirably answered as always by Richard.
Remember that warmtone papers bleach much more easily and quickly than
neutral or coldtone papers so you may want to alter your bleach
concentration either way according to the effect you want. It isn't always
appropriate to bleach all the way. If you do you will get sepia shadow tones
as well as mid and light tones. Sepia shadows often look lighter and less
dense than black ones. Bleaching only partially allows you to keep black
shadow tones under the sepia mid and light tones and gives a different look
with a more 'solid' appearance. Or you can bleach to a minimal degree and
only tone the highlights to give a sunny warmth to an otherwise B&W print.

Although there is a lot to be said for incomplete bleaching, the toning
stage should generally always be taken to completion. With sepia it will
only tone that which has been bleached so its better to apply control at
that stage otherwise you leave unredeveloped halides in the print and should
fix to make stable, and this will cause loss of tone (which may be desired
but usually isn't)

If you have fully sepia toned/redeveloped you don't need to fix, therefore
you don't need to hypo clear either as you will have removed all hypo before
bleaching (and this is important to do).
You may want to hypo clear after selenium toning however as KRST and similar
contain hypo. 

Why not try the thiourea odourless variety? There isn't much experimenting
you need to do really. Its just like the smelly one but more user friendly
and not likely to fog other materials. The only extra step is how much
additive you want for the colour you have in mind. It's really easy.

Tim
http://www.worldoflithprinting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Nelson
Sent: 09 June 2007 00:26
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: Ansco 221 Observations & Questions

Thanks Don for all the helpful info.

I've got the formulas for all the sepias and had settled on Ansco 221 for
repeatabilty in my lab here. 
I've wanted to try the thiocarbamide formula but have't found time to
experiment like I used to.

That's good to know about the bleach as my prints never "disappear" in that
step but just get lighter.  

I tried a non-stinky version, pre-packaged, and I couldn't control the
bleaching no matter what I did and was never able to recover the tones using
Forte or Bergger warm tone paper.  Hence my motivation to mix my own here as
that way I know what I've got.

Since I use a 16x20 "archival" washer that takes forever to change out the
water, after toning I wash for 45 mins to an hour.

Eric

--- Don Feinberg <ducque@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Eric,
> 
> If you're going to go to the effort to use a ferricyanide bleach 
> followed by redevelop, why don't you use thiocarbamide instead of 
> sulfide? -- No odors!
> Not only that, but by varying the relative proportions of the two 
> parts of the redeveloper you can create a fairly wide range of tones, 
> from almost yellow to quite purple-brown.
> 
> I tend to somewhat over-dilute my bleach solutions as you do.  
> Ferricyanide bleach works pretty quickly, and you do have to 
> "anticipate" it. If you yank the print from the bleach at the point 
> you think you want, it's already too late.  By the time the water bath 
> stops the ferricyanide action, much more of the image is bleached than 
> you intended.  I like to dilute the ferricyanide down so I get my 
> bleaching times in the
> 1 to 2 minute range.  I
> get much more control that way.
> 
> Between the bleach and the redevelop I don't use anything but water.  
> I put the bleached prints into the print washer for 10 minutes or so.  
> I don't use acetic acid, and I've never had any "fingerprint"
> issues.  The only real
> problems I've seen are that sometimes the bleaching has actually 
> happened differently than what appears to the eye, and the redevelop 
> doesn't occur the way you'd expect.  I cannot explain that effect.
>  I've also had some
> very occasional streaking, where a "streak" on the print appears 
> because it somehow gets way overdeveloped in the redeveloper.
> I cannot explain that
> effect either.
> 
> I don't use hypo-clear after the redevelop.  I do use a two-bath wash; 
> I put the print right from the redeveloper into a fresh tray of water 
> for a couple of minutes, then transfer it to the print washer.
> 
> I'm working away from home for some months and I don't have my 
> personal "formulary" notebooks available here, but I'm sure someone 
> else on the list would have the formula.
> 
> Don Feinberg
> ducque@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
>  > I use the Ansco 221 formula for my sepia toned prints whether
> > on warm or cold toned papers.
> > One observation is that if your sulfide solution
> doesn't
> > smell, don't use it!  I took a chance with some
> older
> > Solution 2 and the re-development was minimal and
> basically
> > ruined that print.
> > I find that Ilford Multigrade will lose very
> little density
> > from bleaching while warm toned papers will lose a
> 
> > substantial amount so much more overexposure is
> needed for
> > warm toned papers.
> > 
> > My 1st question regarding dilution of Solution 1.
> > I dilute to 1:5 and typically will bleach for
> around 7
> > minutes or more.  I came up w/this dilution after
> using it
> > for years and having things bleach too much,
> seeing other
> > bleaching formulas at similar concentrations were
> diluted,
> > and also as a way to conserve chemistry.  
> > Is this being penny wise and pound foolish?
> > 
> > 2nd question is re: the after treatment.  After
> the toning
> > bath I wash the prints for 5-15 minutes and then
> just drag
> > them through a 3% acetic acid bath.  In the past I
> have
> > gotten smears and or fingerprints showing up in
> the dried
> > prints and this has eliminated that issue.  
> > 
> > I have read conflicting recommendations for using
> hypo clear
> > after toning, and by conflicting I mean some
> references
> > mention it and others do not.
> > Anyone want to put in their 2¢ on whether to hypo
> clear after toning?
> > Formula is below for reference.
> > Thanks
> > Eric
> > 
> > Ansco/Agfa 221 Sepia Toner
> > Solution 1 (Bleach)
> > Water (at 125F or 52C)                    750.0 ml
> > Potassium Ferricyanide                     50.0
> grams
> > Potassium Bromide                          10.0
> grams
> > Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated             20.0
> grams
> > Cold water to make                          1.0
> liter
> > 
> > Solution 2 (Redeveloper)
> > Sodium Sulfide, dessicated                 45.0
> grams
> > Water to make                             500.0 ml
>  
> 
>
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Follow-Ups:

[pure-silver] Re: Ansco 221 Observations & Questions
From: Eric Nelson
References:
- [pure-silver] Re: Ansco 221 Observations & Questions
  - From: Don Feinberg
- [pure-silver] Re: Ansco 221 Observations & Questions
  - From: Eric Nelson
[pure-silver] Re: Ansco 221 Observations & Questions

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