The Prius isn't everything it was hyped to be and is still pretty
neat. I did 54 mpg with one at least that is what the on board
computer told me.
Bob Miller
Anybody know anything about a Sampo 42" plasma? Specifically the
whereabouts of a user and or service manual.
On 6/7/07, Barry Wilkins <barry.barrywilkins@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I recently watched a very dubious program on tv regarding pneumatically
> powered vehicles and I was not impressed. The basic facts suggest you
simply
> cannot pack enough energy into compressed air in a small safe volume to
do
> sufficient work with it. The technology weakness is always telling if
they
> progress from all out air technology to hybrid vehicles as they realize
> there is not sufficient energy density. They would not do, for instance,
> going up and down the hills of Wellington City NZ all day long as for
> instance a taxi is required to do.
>
> Furthermore , it would appear that people loose track of the origination
of
> the energy source and the losses involved in the storage process. Much
heat
> is generated in the compression of air and this is simply waste energy
that
> cannot be extracted by the vehicle. A vehicle that needs to operate for
4
> hours per day at an average 20KW work load requires double this energy
from
> the electricity supply to compress the air in the first place. As a 50KW
3
> phase induction motor would be required to operate over at least 4 hours
to
> compress this air I do not believe it is a very practical solution in
> general.
>
>
> On 6/8/07, Bob Miller <robmxa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > There are so many possible solutions that need investigating. What I
> > like about the compressed air solution is its simplicity both in
> > operation and in refueling. All you need for refueling is an
> > electrical outlet and some time or less time, a minute or so, and
> > already compressed air at an air station. No pollution at the air
> > station, no pollution in distribution and none with the vehicle.
> > Everything polluting is concentrated in the electrical grid which can
> > be any of a hundred different power sources all contained and
> > distributed.
> >
> > Bob Miller
> >
> > On 6/7/07, Barry Wilkins < barry.barrywilkins@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > I have had a long interest in the concept of a vehicle that operates
> (gets
> > > its energy from) the oxidation of aluminium. I imagine you all know
that
> > > aluminium is an extremely reactive element and that it is only
because
> an
> > > instantaneous very thin impervious layer of oxide film forms on
exposed
> > > metal that saves it from totally combusting in the presence of
oxygen in
> > > air. As Aluminium has a similar energy to weight ratio as petrol
when
> > > oxidized (burnt) it would appear to be a very stable and practical
> > > alternative to fossil fuel.
> > >
> > > Of course the original energy is derived from the electrolysis of
> aluminium
> > > oxide to the metal and this process has its losses and requires
> electrical
> > > energy which may perhaps be derived from an original fossil source.
> > >
> > > In my country's situation though, New Zealand's only aluminuim
smelter
> is
> > > operated from hydro power and so is eco friendly. Furthermore, the
> > > conversion of high quality aluminium oxide (the result of the
oxidation
> in
> > > powering the vehicle) back to aluminium is far more efficient than
that
> > > process where the raw material is bauxite, which requires
pre-refining.
> Note
> > > that this is a completely cyclical process where the aluminium is
simply
> an
> > > energy carrier. Once a certain quantity of this material is inserted
> into
> > > the cycle, it is not wasted.
> > > The oxidation of aluminium to power a vehicle can be carried out in
such
> a
> > > way that it regenerates electrical power, i.e. as in an
aluminium/air
> fuel
> > > cell, or it can be oxidized in the presence of water (by the water)
to
> > > effectively split the water molecules to generate hydrogen. In this
> latter
> > > way the aluminium provides the energy required for hydrolysis. This
is
> to me
> > > the safest way to operate a hydrogen vehicle as the hydrogen can be
> > > generated on demand without residual. Again there are energy
conversion
> > > losses in the splitting in the form of considerable heat generation.
The
> > > trick is to make use of the heated water and the liberated hydrogen
to
> > > produce traction. Here you may be amused but I have a practical
solution
> -
> > > use the heat of oxidation to generate steam and then burn the
hydrogen
> to
> > > superheat the steam. Operate a small steam turbine/electric
generator to
> > > drive electric motors and charge a small high energy cell. There are
> losses
> > > in this conversion scheme but interestingly, they do not amount to
any
> in
> > > excess of a typical internal combustion engine under normal
operating
> > > conditions. The benefits are: It generates no local pollutants, the
> energy
> > > carrier is recyclable, the aluminium is relatively abundant as an
> element,
> > > it is a concentrated yet stable and safe energy storage material
which
> has
> > > an energy/weight ratio competitive with petrol. Note you must
include
> the
> > > other reactant (water) in the total energy/weight calculation.
> > > The typical shortcut considered by many is to simply burn the
hydrogen
> in an
> > > internal combustion engine. Problem is, you have already lost some
> energy in
> > > the splitting process and internal combustion engines run on
hydrogen
> run so
> > > hot that valves and pistons are destroyed. So for these reasons an
> external
> > > combustion process (which is cleaner burning) and makes use of the
heat
> of
> > > reaction would be preferred. The electric cell/motors are required
for
> > > instant demand as a turbine has a slow acceleration rate and should
be
> > > operated at optimum revs continually.
> > >
> > > I imagine there will be any number of objections to this little
scheme
> and I
> > > am keen to hear them. The thing is, no other alternative power
system I
> know
> > > of meets all of the criteria I have mentioned. Perhaps some, not
all.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Barry Wilkins
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/7/07, Bob Miller <robmxa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > Air power is another solution. It could rely solely on the
electric
> > > > grid where we can more efficiently control emissions and work
toward
> > > > centralized power sources that are renewable.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.theaircar.com/
> > > >
> > > > Ironically air conditioning is no problem but heating is.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Miller
> > > >
> > > > On 6/6/07, Manfredi, Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx >
wrote:
> > > > > When I hear "reinvent" or "take to the next level," my BS alarm
goes
> > > > > off.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've always been a fan of fuel cell cars, because they take the
> battery
> > > > > out of the electric car, and it's the battery that kills
electric
> cars.
> > > > > But betting on fuel cells hardly "take[s] the automobile totally
out
> of
> > > > > the environmental debate."
> > > > >
> > > > > Fuel cells require H2. And H2 is either extracted from water
with
> > > > > electrolysis, or it could be extracted from hydrocarbon
molecules.
> > > > > Either process needs energy. Extracting and transporting H2 will
> somehow
> > > > > or other have an impact on greenhouse gas emissions, or
wildlife, or
> > > > > nuclear waste, or the beauty of the landscape, or most likely
all of
> the
> > > > > above. And they all fall under "the environment."
> > > > >
> > > > > The EV-1 was always a non-starter. It was PR, best used by
Hollywood
> > > > > actors in search of virtue. And the so-called "plug-in hybrids"
are
> no
> > > > > better. They simply place a greater load on the power grid than
> hybrids
> > > > > do, while at the same time shortening battery life compared with
> > > > > hybrids, by drawing the charge way down every time you leave the
> > > > > driveway.
> > > > >
> > > > > At best, all of these supposed solutions are just minor tweaks
to
> the
> > > > > bigger environmental picture. Hardly solutions. Some probabably
> create a
> > > > > worse mess than we have now. Cold fusion might be a solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bert
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------
> > > > > GM exec: Time to reinvent the automobile
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian Fuller
> > > > > (06/05/2007 10:51 AM EDT)
> > > > > URL:
> > >
> http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=199901250
> > > > >
> > > > > SAN DIEGO - The man who runs R&D for General Motors said it's
time
> to
> > > > > reinvent the product that's made his company what it is today:
the
> > > > > automobile.
> > > > >
> > > > > "We want to take the automobile totally out of the environmental
> > > > > debate," Larry Burns, vice president of research and development
and
> > > > > strategic initiatives, said Monday (June 4). He delivered the
first
> > > > > keynote at this week's 44th annual Design Automation Conference
> here.
> > > > >
> > > > > "We literally have an opportunity to reinvent the automobile
around
> > > > > these exciting technologies." Burns spoke a few feet from a
> Chevrolet
> > > > > Sequel vehicle-one of two GM has manufactured-that runs entirely
on
> > > > > hydrogen fuel cell technology. GM officials recently drove it
300
> miles
> > > > > on a single fuel cell charge emitting only water vapor.
> > > > >
> > > > > The next step for the technology is to move it into the
Chevrolet
> > > > > Equinox, where about more than 100 fuel-cell-only models will be
> > > > > marketed in Los Angeles, New York and Washington, D.C.
initially.
> > > > >
> > > > > For some, GM's fuel-cell move is a bet-the-farm strategy that
> insiders
> > > > > hope doesn't end up like the abortive EV-1 all-electric project
that
> GM
> > > > > killed after making and leasing about 800 vehicles.
> > > > >
> > > > > "It's one basket we've put eggs into, but actually our strategy
is
> to
> > > > > displace petroleum," Burns said in an interview before the
keynote.
> He
> > > > > pointed to continuing work on all-electric vehicles (the
Chevrolet
> Volt)
> > > > > and other initiatives.
> > > > >
> > > > > Burns also sketched out an automotive future in which cars begin
to
> > > > > communicate with each other in vehicle to vehicle networks to
> improve
> > > > > safety and the driving experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Beyond that it sets up a future in which vehicles can drive
> > > > > themselves," he said.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because GM engineers take a top-down view on design and must
blend
> > > > > mechanical and electrical systems at a high level of
abstraction,
> Burns
> > > > > said auto manufacturers are relying on the design automation
> industry to
> > > > > continue to deliver tools to enable them to design at such
levels.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Math-based tools are very much at the heart of virtual
engineering
> and
> > > > > virtual vehicle development," he said, noting the Sequel was
> designed
> > > > > from the ground up in 18 months. You truly are on the pathway to
> making
> > > > > this future happen through the tools you're making."
> > > > >
> > > > > All material on this site Copyright 2007 CMP Media LLC. All
rights
> > > > > reserved.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
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