[lit-ideas] Re: virtue-practical example of being taught
From: Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:29:45 EST
In a message dated 1/1/2006 2:42:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,
writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
Girl Scouts didn't start in the 80's -- unless Missouri is so far behind the
rest of the world.
Hi,
I'm not talking about Girl Scouts. I'm talking about Boy Scouts.
Girl Scouts (in the USA) was started by Juliette Lowe--who was a friend of
the daughter of Lord Baden-Powell who started Boy Scouts in England. He let
girls in--the BSA was already formed by that time and they did not let girls
in.
That was why Girl Scouts of America was formed.
BSA had a lot of girls who wanted to be a part of it. SOME Girl Scout troops
do the camping/high adventure stuff that the boy scout side does--a lot of
them do not. (I was in a troop that did--but I was in a different area than
around here--most of the ones around here and in St. Louis [my niece tried
it-and she would have loved that part of scouting] do not)
Venturing Crews started in BSA as a reaction to this--there were a lot of
girls who wanted to do the High Adventures, in particular. (we also have a
number of them around here--along with a lot of former boy scouts who only have
daughters...) It took a really long time for them to change on the national
level.
The national United Way organization has stopped contributing to the
national side of BSA. Each local United Way organization can and does make its
own
individual decisions as to whether or not it will choose to give to BSA (or
any other organization) In my area, the local United Ways DO give to the
Council level or BSA and are working within the framework to try to make
changes
in policies that it construes (on the national level) to be immoral and
contrary to what the Scout Oath and Law state.
I didn't make my point clear in regards to pedophiles and gays--although at
least you understood that the line is VERY blurred for MOST people. It was for
me in college--until I talked to men who articulated to me their experiences
and they were very different from the friends that I had made who had been
abused by pedophiles.
Around here, and elsewhere in the country, I would suspect that the main
reason for the discrimination is because of that blurred line (as you put it).
You are correct--the line really is NOT blurred--but because the physical act
is the same, there is confusion. And, as well, that group that is extremely
vocal about how it is 'okay' for men to have physical relationships 'ie love'
with boys continues to cause that line to be blurred.
I was stating what I see as the major problem of education that needs and
suggesting that the piece of education (ie that there is a difference) needs
to
be explained ALOT more than it is. Around here, there is in fact a
viewpoint that 'women' as gays don't abuse, but 'men' as gays do. It's because
of
that group--and that issue has NOT been dealt with around here by the gay
community. (but, as I stated, there is a university professor who is on the
radio
whenever he can be proclaiming that there is/should be no problem with men
having physical relationships with boys...)
The Youth Protection training/set-up takes care of a lot of the issue of the
pedophiles as they generally head towards any place where they can get
victims easily--and can go from one to another until they find one. That's why
the
internet is, really, a wonderful thing if for those who want to abuse
kids/teens. There is no way to know if someone is another teen or not--until
it is
(often) too late. I know a lot of parents who won't even let their kids
touch the internet because of that protective instinct. (yes, it does the kids
a
disservice and it would be healthier, in my mind, if they sat down next to
their kids, etc.) Still, even on this list we have had someone who was not
who
s/he seemed to be. Since Youth Protection in BSA, however, does work (the
rate of abuse has, indeeed, dropped), the next issue to do is to look at the
other piece that came up as a result of the high rate--and that was the
confusion between pedophiles and gays. Yes they erred too far as a
reaction--but
there IS a reason for that and there is (from what I can tell) no real
education, even now, addressing that emotional fear ...which is only
perpetuated
because of the vocalness of the others who advocate that it is okay to (in my
mind, abuse) etc.
When dealing with the emotion of someone on an intellectual level, it's hard
to have a dialogue. When you deal with what is triggering the emotion and
alleviate it, then you can (often) interact on an intellectual level and make
some changes on a rational level.
The emotion stems from fear--and that fear has to do with confusion. Clear
up the confusion, the fear will be lessened and then the emotion will pop up so
that the intellect can be engaged.
At least, that is how I have (generally) tried to deal with tipping over the
edge...<wry look>
I do understand your concern, please know. I suppose that I hate to throw
out the incredible 'good' that I see in the stated principles of scouting...if
I could join a worldwide troop, I'd probably do that ... but there really is
no alternative in this area to scouting. Campfire once was that
alternative--but not in this area. In addition, I also think there is a
little poetic
justice once the folk who spout off the oath and law realize (and are
appalled...) that their actions have not been based on them at all--and the
growth in
regards to the individual is pretty cool to see, then. But, it is hard work
and takes a lot of patience...and sometimes the 'financial' pressure works (ie
withholding United Way funds) and sometimes it does not--in those cases,
other methods of pressure [ie gentle explaining/understanding where the emotion
comes from and alleviating it and then shining a light...)
Since there is often a part of me which would like to be like Irene/Andy and
not work towards changing what needs to be changed in order to not throw the
baby out with the bathwater (to use a cliche <sigh>), if there was an
alternative, I'd be in it. We'd have to move to Canada or elsewhere, though
<g>)
But--we can also set up the internet world jamborees--go to the world
jamborees, host other country troops, etc. and educate in those ways so that
this
next group of leaders will have a comprehension of what is can could and
should
be...
Best,
Marlena in Missouri
