FreeLists / haiku-web / [haiku-web] Re: Trac (reevaluated)

[Michael Phipps <mphipps1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Waldemar Kornewald wrote:
> Michael Phipps wrote:
> > Waldemar and I have looked at dozens of packages. I honestly don't 
> > think that anyone has a clue how to build a CMS. These things were 
> > written by people who know, understand and HATE usability. They are 
> > almost as bad as they could be.
>
> Indeed. To clarify, I just talked about one of the problems we have with 
> current
> CMS solutions on the IRC channel:

>>>snip<<<
Agreed! Although, in fairness, I am not sure that a simple tree control 
is the be-all-end-all way to find what you are looking for, it is the 
right *paradigm*.

> > So, honestly, we are sort of at an impasse. We continue to look at 
> > stuff and we wait for Railfrog. It seems to be headed in a better 
> > direction than anything else I have seen, but it is hard to judge on 
> > so little.
>
> Michael, maybe you should join their mailing list and help them 
> (together with
> me) to get usability right? They are very open to us.

Honestly, I am pretty overloaded with (paying) work ATM. I am more 
inclined to finding a short block of time to either explain to them what 
I want (although you and I are pretty close to on the same track) OR to 
evaluating some more complete piece with a writeup (like, say, after the 
next coding surge).

> I doubt that we will get a lot more reports, ATM (we don't have many
> non-experts). Especially, if we require to sign-up and login. That will 
> be the
> biggest barrier keeping lazy people away from any bug tracker. But we 
> can't fix
> bugs if we can't contact the reporter (who, if possible, should confirm 
> that the
> bug is fixed).

I think that we will. Honestly, bugzilla, while a usability disaster, 
isn't THAT hard to put a bug into. Mostly they go in wrong, but that 
doesn't stop people from entering them. :-)

> There is no guarantee, but if it's better nobody will say anything against
> switching to Trac. I won't do it if the developers are against it, but they
> just say "we don't care since Bugzilla works for us". If they don't care 
> I'll
> care.

You are much like me in that. :-) That's what drives me in Haiku - that 
someone has to care about making an OS usable and fun.

> In a wiki you immediately see the results and you can work on the 
> *original*
> material. Email are too hard to work with and it's not this "oh, I'll 
> quickly
> fix or write that...". It's not a quickly accessible method (unlike a 
> wiki or a
> community CMS).

Fair, although for a "real" system, I would rather have moderated 
wiki/community entries than something as open as most wiki.

> Yep, something like a forum/mailing-list/googlegroups hybrid with 
> per-topic and
> per-group subscriptions and email-replies similar to a mailing-list. Or 
> if you
> don't want to get emails you can manually watch for new posts. Whatever is
> preferred and more appropriate. Also, you could easily reply to past topics
> which you didn't receive.


Yes. My point, though, was that we aren't trying to be closed, we are 
just being open in a scatter shot way which isn't giving the impression 
of openness.
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