FreeLists / haiku-web / [haiku-web] Re: Trac migration to AccountManager

["Jorge G. Mare" <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Niels,

On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 22:48 +0200, Niels Reedijk wrote:
> Hi Jorge,
> 
> 2008/4/9, Jorge G. Mare <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > If Trac on server A needs to access the DB of the website on server
> >  B, there are certain situations that can break or affect Trac
> >  functionality, such as when server B is down, or when the DB in server B
> >  is down. This setup also requires making changes on one system when the
> >  other is moved to different a server (which can/will happen). It also
> >  means that any customization(s) required by this setup be migrated when
> >  systems are upgraded; this may be trivial or not, but you can never know
> >  (as we do not know what/how Trac and/or Drupal will change in the
> >  future).
> >
> >  These are the sort of dependencies that we want to avoid.
> 
> Yes. I agree. But then again, installing a third system between those
> two, to act as a mediator, with known and published protocols (such as
> OpenID), will not be less reliable, and will provide a future upgrade
> path.

If you think this is feasible and manageable with the manpower that we
have, then I don't see a problem. On the contrary, I understand the
benefits, which are not only for the convenience of the user, but also
great from a marketing POV, as it could potentially allow to capture
user demographics from a much wider audience.

> >  Maintaining the present interdependent system during upgrades or server
> >  moves may not sound like a lot of work, and that may be the case as long
> >  as the person who does the customizations is around and has the time and
> >  inclination to take care of things. But as we already know, this is
> >  never guaranteed to be the case in open source. So we are simply taking
> >  the practical approach.
> >
> >  Finally, I feel sorry for Niels being caught in between what was long
> >  ago discussed/agreed by consensus on this list and what looks like your
> >  veto against this decision after all this time.
> 
> Well, thanks for your concerns, but I do not really feel 'caught in
> between'. A few weeks back (time flies) I had implemented the other
> solution to keep the current connection. I don't really mind. I think
> keeping all options open is good at this point.

OK, maybe I read too much into your response to Axel. Nevertheless, this
discussion started with an email from Gavin on March 18, where he
mentioned the offer from ICS and explained why we had to separate the
two systems. From the exchange that followed on this list, I think it is
fair to say that we did reach a consensus that we wanted to move towards
eliminating dependencies between the two systems.

> >  Which is why I would ask again if you could please show some
> >  flexibility, and went along with our decision even if you disagreed
> >  with it (which we can understand).
> 
> Well, I think we are hitting a common Open Source problem. Who decides
> what? Especially with the infrastructure, that can be a problem. I do
> not feel that Axel is vetoing this option, but at the same time, I
> also do not feel like this choice is a done deal yet. It might be
> interesting discussing the merits and problems a bit more before we
> dive in a decision.

I don't mind discussing, but we have already been talking about the
merits and problems for the last few weeks, haven't we? This past Monday
you even asked for feedback on the two available choices. As everyone
was expressing their preference for switching to a separate login
system, Axel came and declared this choice unacceptable. That's an
adamant position. Period.

As much I would like to think that this choice is not a done deal yet,
in practice Axel taking such an adamant position narrows down our choice
to only one: his choice; this is how veto power works for all practical
purposes. Unless, of course, we are willing to say "well, thank you Axel
for your opinion" and do what we think is right in line with the
consensus that we had reached as a group. Do you guys have what it takes
to do that?

Cheers,

Koki


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